Sri Ramana Maharshi
D.: What is the relation between Brahman and Isvara?
M.: Brahman is called Isvara in relation to the world.
D.: Is it possible to speak to Isvara as Sri Ramakrishna did?
M.: When we can speak to each other why should we not speak to Isvara in the same way?
D.: Then why does it not happen with us?
M.: It requires purity and strength of mind and practice in meditation.
D.: Does God become evident if the above conditions exist?
M.: Such manifestations are as real as your own reality. In other words, when you identify yourself with the body as in jagrat you see gross objects; when in subtle body or in mental plane as in svapna, you see objects equally subtle; in the absence of identification as in sushupti you see nothing. The objects seen bear a relation to the state of the seer. The same applies to visions of God. By long practice the figure of God, as meditated upon, appears in dream and may later appear in jagrat also.
D.: Is that the state of God-realisation?
M.: Listen to what happened once, years ago. There was a saint by name Namdev. He could see, talk and play with Vithoba as we do with one another. He used to spend most of his time in the temple playing with Vithoba. On one occasion the saints had assembled together, among whom was one Jnandev of well-established fame and eminence. Jnandev asked Gora Kumbhar (a potter-saint) to use his proficiency in testing the soundness of baked pots and find out which of the assembled saints was properly baked clay. So Gora Kumbhar took his stick and gently struck each one’s head in joke as if to test. When he came to Namdev the latter protested in a huff; all laughed and hooted. Namdev was enraged and he sought Vithoba in the temple. Vithoba said that the saints knew best; this unexpected reply upset Namdev all the more.
He said: You are God. I converse and play with you. Can there be anything more to be gained by man?
Vithoba persisted: The saints know.
Namdev: Tell me if there is anything more real than you.
Vithoba: We have been so familiar with each other that my advice will not have the desired effect on you. Seek the beggar-saint in the forest and know the truth.
Accordingly Namdev sought out the particular saint mentioned by Vithoba. Namdev was not impressed with the holiness of the man for he was nude, dirty and was lying on the floor with his feet resting on a linga. Namdev wondered how this could be a saint. The saint, on the other hand, smiled on Namdev and asked, “Did Vithoba send you here?”
This was a great surprise to Namdev who was now more inclined to believe the man to be great. So Namdev asked him: “You are said to be a saint, why do you desecrate the linga?”
The saint replied. “Indeed I am too old and weak to do the right thing. Please lift my feet and place them where there is no linga.”
Namdev accordingly lifted the saint’s feet and placed them elsewhere. But there was again a linga below them. Wherever the feet were placed then and there appeared a linga underneath. Namdev finally placed the feet on himself and he turned into a linga.
Then Namdev understood that God was immanent and learnt the truth and departed. He went home and did not go to the temple for several days. Vithoba now sought him out in his home and asked why Namdev would not go to the temple to see God.
Namdev said: “Is there a place where He is not?”
The moral of the story is clear. Visions of God have their place below the plane of Self-Realisation.
D.: What is the relation between Brahman and Isvara?
M.: Brahman is called Isvara in relation to the world.
D.: Is it possible to speak to Isvara as Sri Ramakrishna did?
M.: When we can speak to each other why should we not speak to Isvara in the same way?
D.: Then why does it not happen with us?
M.: It requires purity and strength of mind and practice in meditation.
D.: Does God become evident if the above conditions exist?
M.: Such manifestations are as real as your own reality. In other words, when you identify yourself with the body as in jagrat you see gross objects; when in subtle body or in mental plane as in svapna, you see objects equally subtle; in the absence of identification as in sushupti you see nothing. The objects seen bear a relation to the state of the seer. The same applies to visions of God. By long practice the figure of God, as meditated upon, appears in dream and may later appear in jagrat also.
D.: Is that the state of God-realisation?
M.: Listen to what happened once, years ago. There was a saint by name Namdev. He could see, talk and play with Vithoba as we do with one another. He used to spend most of his time in the temple playing with Vithoba. On one occasion the saints had assembled together, among whom was one Jnandev of well-established fame and eminence. Jnandev asked Gora Kumbhar (a potter-saint) to use his proficiency in testing the soundness of baked pots and find out which of the assembled saints was properly baked clay. So Gora Kumbhar took his stick and gently struck each one’s head in joke as if to test. When he came to Namdev the latter protested in a huff; all laughed and hooted. Namdev was enraged and he sought Vithoba in the temple. Vithoba said that the saints knew best; this unexpected reply upset Namdev all the more.
He said: You are God. I converse and play with you. Can there be anything more to be gained by man?
Vithoba persisted: The saints know.
Namdev: Tell me if there is anything more real than you.
Vithoba: We have been so familiar with each other that my advice will not have the desired effect on you. Seek the beggar-saint in the forest and know the truth.
Accordingly Namdev sought out the particular saint mentioned by Vithoba. Namdev was not impressed with the holiness of the man for he was nude, dirty and was lying on the floor with his feet resting on a linga. Namdev wondered how this could be a saint. The saint, on the other hand, smiled on Namdev and asked, “Did Vithoba send you here?”
This was a great surprise to Namdev who was now more inclined to believe the man to be great. So Namdev asked him: “You are said to be a saint, why do you desecrate the linga?”
The saint replied. “Indeed I am too old and weak to do the right thing. Please lift my feet and place them where there is no linga.”
Namdev accordingly lifted the saint’s feet and placed them elsewhere. But there was again a linga below them. Wherever the feet were placed then and there appeared a linga underneath. Namdev finally placed the feet on himself and he turned into a linga.
Then Namdev understood that God was immanent and learnt the truth and departed. He went home and did not go to the temple for several days. Vithoba now sought him out in his home and asked why Namdev would not go to the temple to see God.
Namdev said: “Is there a place where He is not?”
The moral of the story is clear. Visions of God have their place below the plane of Self-Realisation.
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