Absolute: Prior to Consciousness

Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

M: Do you have questions? [To a particular visitor] What happened to your question?

Visitor (V): I try to understand that level where there should be no more questions. Why should I come down to this level and put questions in this case?

M: What happened to your question?

V: They are in the beginning. But in the ultimate state, there are no questions. Why should I come down to a low level to ask questions?

M: Who invited you to step down into questions?

Interpreter [I]: If you don't want to ask questions, what is the point of meeting him [Maharaj]?

M: In the morning I clearly told you, I am not addressing you as a person, as an individual. I am addressing you as the expression of the consciousness. In these dialogues, there is no question of I am you. This consciousness is the product of the food body essence and is talking to that expression of the consciousness. You always assume that whatever occurs to you is knowledge, but it is really a concept. True knowledge is beyond concept, prior to concept. The conceptless, wordless, speechless state is knowledge. The trouble is that a foreign concept occurs to you, you like it, then you give it a title, you remember the title and you call it "knowledge" and are satisfied with it. How can you speak or develop any concept unless the primary concept "I AM" is available? This primary concept begets further concepts; that is, all other concepts occur to it. We call it God, Ishvara, and such names; and all that we call "knowledge." This primary concept illuminates all those concepts which later became my knowledge. However, whatever concept occurs to you, including the primary concept " I AM", is not the eternal state.

This primary concept occurred to you, then you called it Brahman, Ishvara. Because you like it, because you like to be, you give it these glorious names as mentioned. But with all that, it is still only a concept. Why is not eternal? Because its very foundation is this food body only. So long as the food body is available in proper balance and proper condition, that "I-am-ness" or any other concept will be sustained.

Now where is your sample available in this? It is not to be found in you as the Absolute. Only the sample of the food essence in the form of " I-am-ness," a touch of "I-am-ness," is available.

I am telling you my story. And while I am narrating my story to you, it means that you are getting to know your own self. If you understand my story, you will also understand your own story. Abide in yourself. Actually Lord Krishna expounded his story; but he gave it the glorious name of Brahma vidya, the knowledge of Brahman. Can anything good or bad happen to the Brahma vidya, knowledge of the Self? Since nothing good or bad can happen to that Brahman, that Parabrahman is known as nishkama, the desireless Parabrahman state. The knowledge of beingness, the knowledge of the self, is like the utility of an unborn child; it has absolutely no use. Similarly, this Brahma vidya in final analysis is of no use.

Most of the so-called jnanis unjustifiably thought that they had the knowledge through certain concepts which they valued very much. They glorified the concepts by giving them various high-falutin names. And they hung on to thse particular concepts as their creed, religion, or profound knowledge. Even this primary concept, "I-am-ness," is dishonest, just because it is still only a concept. Finally, one has to transcend that also and be in the nirvikalpa state, which means the concept-free state. Then you have no concept at all, not even of I AM. In that state one does not know that one is. This state is known as Parabrahman: Brahman transcended. Brahman is manifest; Parabrahman is beyond that, prior to that: the Absolute. Do you understand what I am driving at?

Whatever you caught in your attention, that attention should eventually turn into no-attention. The state that is finally left over is Awareness, Parabrahman.

I am addressing the consciousness. The instrument of consciousness for comprehension is attention. Anything is absorbed in the attention and whatever is really understood goes through that attention, which itself is then dissolved into and as consciousness. So what remains? No concept is left. Thus, attention also turns into no-attention. With the arrival of consciousness, it occurs to you or in your attention. So when the consciousness is not there, attention is also not there. Subsequent to the arrival of consciousness and attention, everything else crept in. Now let us assume that through your attention you are able to embrace the entire manifest universe. When your consciousness is not there, where is that attention which embraced the entire universe? Therefore, the jnani-jnani is that principle where there is no question of a person-transcends this "I-am-ness" state. It is the "no-I-am-ness" state. The jnani dismisses the consciousness. A jnani has no scope at all for any pride, because there are no props left for supporting his pride.

The absolute state is prior to consciousness; it means the unborn state. Since the Parabrahman is the unborn state, prior to consciousness, can it have an iota of knowledge?

An unborn child does not know of his existence. Similarly, the Parabrahman state does not know itself, that it is. My words are only rooted in the Absolute. You must be able to divine any meaning out of them.

The principle that understands relationships and tries to understand, still exists in the realm of consciousness; it is in the realm of attention. But that to which it points has no attention in it.

Who Knows I AM?

Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

What I am telling you, you are not in a position to understand, and what you are telling me, I don't understand. So what is the use of more talk?

Visitor (V): Well, it wasn't my intention to imply that I knew anything; I felt I knew a few things relativity-wise, but now I realize that I know nothing and that is due to Maharaj's grace.

M: Since you are talking from the standpoint that you understand nothing, still you are asking questions. So how am I to understand them?

The type and the quality of questions which emerges from you indicates that you are not understanding what I am driving at. The whole object of the dialogue is for you to understand what I am saying and that I understand what you are asking. If this is not the case, then what is the purpose of a dialogue at all?

I am not well. I shall be talking only crisply and to the point. No digression. Many people have listened to my talks, have understood and have gone into quietude. If people cannot understand me, what can I do about that? If my talks cannot be understood, it is no use attending them.

This morning I asked a question: "Who knows I am?" And you asked me a counter question: What should I understand by that?" May you keep quiet; don't ask any further questions today.

 ****

M: In the morning, when you asked that question, I thought you were trying to be argumentative.

V: I apologize for your feeling that way; my question in return to yours was perhaps facile; it was, however, not meant to be argumentative. I felt there was an answer to that question that I perhaps did not know. But in truth I did know the answer and I do understand what you have been saying. Yet at times, with the knowledge that is being absorbed one feels that one does not really understand after all, yet the knowledge is absorbed. Who is there to know? And that is all I wanted to convey.

M: I felt as if you are trying to attack or challenge me by your questioning. You should be quiet; when there is no answer coming out of you, you should not ask me to reply, for that question was meant for you, for your opening up. Don't ask questions for sometime. Don't ask any questions to challenge me.

Stop Thinking

Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

Does all this knowledge that is exposed here confuse you? Normally, what is happening is that people assume themselves to be human forms, and they try to understand everything through the filter of that human form; they translate whatever I say into the mode of thinking of a human being, a personalized human being, That is the trouble. I am addressing that principle, that touch of I AM, that consciousness, which is the product of the food essence body.

[To a particular visitor] You are not very clear?

V: I thought I was fairly clear; you can't really judge me from what I say. What I say might belie my understanding.

M: You are of the firm conviction that you understood?

V: No. There are certain things that one understands at certain levels, but from the totality nothing was understood.

M: Did you say the highest level or the totality?

V: Totality.

M: What did you mean by 'totality'?

V: When one remains in the  I AM, there is no knowledge, no thought, no movement.

M: When you are only being, are there no thoughts?

V: No.

M: The very consciousness is the potential for thought activity.

V: There is a potential for thought, but if it is not exercised there is no thought.

M: When the consciousness is there, thoughts will spontaneously come or they may not; you have no control over that whatsoever. It is exclusively the business of the consciousness to have thoughts or no thoughts.

V: But we were talking about the universal consciousness as having no thoughts and no mentation. That being so, where then is the thought? If we are told to be and to remain in the I AM, where then is the thought?

M: Leave it for now and stop thinking.

No Movement in Awareness

Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

Visitor: Is it pure awareness that knows I AM?

M: Yes, that's right. Who can understand that illusory state? 'I am ness' is illusory only. It is not a perfect state, it is illusion. Who knows the illusion? A non-illusory state only can know the illusory state. You are not wrong in your reply, but why did you say 'pure' awareness? What is the necessity of your saying 'pure'

V: There was no necessity.

M: Awareness means pure. Since awareness know 'I am,' it is other, it is more than I AM. That is the highest; there is no gradation in awareness. In the Absolute, the Parabrahman state, there is no question of impure awareness or pure awareness.

V: Is there love in pure awareness?

M: No. What do you mean by love? What is your experience, your idea of love?

V: Something much higher than the love that the mind and the body have. Something that is formless.

M: Up to the state of beingness, 'I am ness', consciousness, there is the state of love. That love is the love to be. This 'love to be' is not the perfect state but when transcended, it is the perfect state. No imperfection!

V: You say 'up to the point of beingness,' is that when you are still in the Absolute?

Interpreter: The no-being state is the Absolute, that is what you call pure awareness. Beingness is the feeling I AM. That I AM itself is love to be. I would like to be. I would love to perpetuate myself.

V: And where is love?

M: That is love. Consciousness itself is love. With consciousness, you would love to be.

V: And in pure awareness?

M: There is no 'I am ness,' there is no consciousness.

V: And no love.

M: In love to be you want to have something, right? Some desire is there, the love to continue to be. In the Parabrahman, there is no love to be, because it is a perfect state.

V: What is the purpose if the Absolute is up there? What is the purpose of the Absolute coming to birth in a form?

M: Why do you ask such an elementary question? I will give you some example. You want to go to a particular place, to visit. You are that need. Because of that need, you love to go. Love is the motive force; it moves you. Similarly, when you are beingness, the beingness wants to continue. It wants to continue in time and space. That is the state of love to be. So love is there only in the state of beingness.

In the perfect state, that state does not want to become something other than what it is. Nor does it want to be. Therefore, that beingness is not there, the feeling of 'I am ness' is not present, in the perfect state. Everything is complete.

When your need is fulfilled, there is no more need, no more lack. There is no more movement. Love is also dissolved at that moment. Suppose you want to go to a place, some far-away station. You rush to the station to catch the train. Why are you rushing? Because you wish to reach your destination. Once you reach it, you don't rush anymore. You stay put in quietude. You forget the movement also; there is no more rushing. Again, I am not addressing an individual or personality. I am addressing that final outcome of the five elemental food essence, I am ness. You are not the personality or the individual. The quintessence of this food, which in turn is the outcome of the five-elemental play, is the taste  I AM. I AM is not a personality nor an individual.

For example, you want to employ a servant. And there is a very weak fellow whom you want to convert into a good servant. He is very weak and cannot perform. So you bring him good food, good nourishment, and then he becomes stronger and steady. Then, finally, is it not the food that has made him into a good servant? The good quality of the food that you gave him is converted into service for you. Similarly, what are medicines? Is not medicine also a type of food? An antidote to a deficiency of a particular food in your body is administered in the form of medicine. Therefore, who is serving that servant? Is it not the food essence? And with respect to your own body, who is serving you? Is it not the food essence that is a good servant to you?

Who Knows You Are?

Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

Who accepts this conviction? It is not the mind. The deep sense in you that 'you are' must accept that you are the Parabrahman, not the mind. Don't be a slave to the meaning which the mind imposes on you. The culmination of that sickness in me is Parabrahman only, but for others having this sickness there will be panic that they are going to die. This is the normal concept of ordinary people. But for one who is firmly convinced that he is the Parabrahman - I would almost say, whatever the 'Self' is that the self is convinced that it is Parabrahman - then the sickness is a blessing, because the sickness helps to deliver one into Parabrahman. 

Who has the knowledge 'I AM'? Somebody in you knows the knowledge 'I AM.' Who is it? It is very obvious that you know you are, but what or who is it that knows you are?

Visitor: I asked that question too. Who knows I am?

Maharaj: Am I to reply that you are sitting here? You know you are sitting here. And you are asking me! You must understand why I am asking this question. Unashamedly, you are asking me to reply to your question.

Interpreter: You see, the point is we have to go to our very core; the whole idea is not to reply superficially. So what is the point in asking others to reply to your question?

V: Because it sounded like a rhetorical question.

I: We are to be prior to "I am ness" Then Maharaj wants us to study ourselves and find out whatever it is. There may not be a verbal reply. At least we must try to understand what he is driving at.

V: I understand that.

You are the Victim of the Mind

Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

Take the case of someone who says, I don't like what Maharaj is saying, so he gets up and walks out. What has happened? He has reacted to the meaning of a particular word or set of words which has come from the mind. So the mind says: I don't like what is being said that thought is converted into words. And again the mind takes the meaning of these words - that I don't like this - and the action takes place of his walking out. If similarly, as the basis of all thought, one accepts some definite principle, then all one's future actions will be based on it. This firm base is the result of accepting the meaning of the word which has come from a particular thought. My guru told me that I am Parabrahman and nothing else. I have accepted that with great conviction and therefore whatever other things appear seem to be palpably false. At one stage for example I was extremely strong; fifteen or twenty years later I had to use a stick. And later on, even the stick becomes useless. So all these changes in the body are not mine. Whatever disease has come, it refers to the area of body only.

All thoughts that come will be based on the firm primary thought "I am the Parabrahman." Unless one adheres to this fundamental principle - and most of us don't 0 we accept that we are the body and continue as such till our deaths. But if the guru's words are accepted with total conviction, our entire destiny, our entire life, will be transformed.

I am splitting off what you are in yourself from whatever thoughts that occur to you. I stated you are not the thoughts but that if you embrace the thoughts as yourself you actually become the thoughts. So I drive a wedge between you and those thoughts, between you and your assimilation of any thoughts or words. Earlier I had said that you become the sum total of all the thoughts and whatever meanings you attach to them. You are the victim of the thoughts, of the meaning of the words, which you entertain as "yours." I gave you the example of that fellow who had accepted the meaning of the words "I have been offended," had wholly swallowed the concept and so made it his own.

In driving that wedge, I say "You are apart from thought or the meaning of the words." What are sattva-gunal, rajas-guna, and tamas-guna? Sattva-guna is doing all the tricks, and you say "I am doing this," you accept the actions of sattva-guna, rajas-guna and tamas-guna as your own! You are not that either. There is the example of a married woman who had been in the family way for three months, and somebody made a forecast that the fetus is that of a very great person, of the standing of Lord Bhagavan Sri Krishna. The child to be born will be as great or even superior to Lord Krishna. That concept or that thought is given. So this lady accepts the thought in toto; embracing the thought, its meaning, as herself, the child must be born as great as Krishna.

The sikness of which I am accused, of which my body is accused, is actually a great blessing, because it is not what I am. But it is also like that lady in the family way. I am also in the same state. That lady, because of the concept given to her, would indeed believe that her child is as great as Krishna. Similarly, my guru has given me this conception that I am the Parabrahman. So that is always there. So then what is the impact of this sickness? The sickness is going to deliver me into the Parabrahman state, because I have accepted Parabrahman as my real nature. I am the Parabrahman only! So this sickness is helping the delivery into the Parabrahman. therefore, the culmination of the sickness is Parabrahman.

You are a slave to the meaning of words, to the meaning of the mind. Therefore, you are the victim of the mind.

All Happens by Itself

Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

Q: What is the relationship between consciousness and the body?

M: The consciousness, in order to manifest itself, must have a form. And the form is the body, and the body is made up of the essence of the five elements, constituting the sustenance for the consciousness. Without sustenance in the form of the body, whichever body it may be - that of a worm, an insect or a human being - consciousness could not sustain itself; it is the food essence which sustains consciousness.

Q: If the various forms of manifestations are merely the expression of universal consciousness. why is there the feeling of individuality in different forms? Why should each form consider itself a separate one?

M: As soon as that which is the unicity manifests itself, the very manifestation signifies duality. Manifestation means there has to be a subject and an object. Manifestation in space-time means divisibility. And it is the very nature of consciousness that as soon as it manifests itself, there are opposites - evil/good, large/small, etc. From the moment the manifestation takes place, duality is its very nature and this must express itself. As soon as there is this manifestation, there is the question of duality, even in the five elements: the air, fire and water are themselves opposites. So the manifestation itself means duality.

If I say that I am ill, what does it mean really? For the sake of communication, one uses the word 'I'. But strictly speaking, I have nothing to do with the form. The illness is on that because of which the form is made and is felt in the consciousness. And I am really neither the form nor the consciousness, which manifests itself in the form. But for the sake of communication, one says 'I am ill,' 'I am worse,' 'I have grown weak' or 'I have grown stronger,' but that is merely an expression of the change in the essence of the form. But growing weaker or stronger, undergoing illness or otherwise, has nothing to do with "I" as such.

There are innumerable languages, not only among human beings but also among forms of being other than the human being. But that on which the language is based - that is, the mind and the consciousness - does not change. The conditioning which has taken place on that consciousness right from the beginning is the basis of the language of that particular form. Therefore, there are innumerable forms and any number of languages.

Now there is a very subtle point and analogy regarding the ordinary language which we know and the spiritual language which do not yet know. That to which one has been conditioned right from the beginning, the language does not need any special effort for anyone to learn. He or she gets used to it from early childhood, from the earliest conditioning. How? Through constant and consistent association with the jnanis, then that language which the jnani speaks and which would normally not be understood by people, will gradually be remembered and understood and becomes natural.

Since when does one come to know the experience of suffering? Only since form was created out of the five elements and there was consciousness in that form. But what was the situation before the form was created and the consciousness came into it? One was unmanifest. One had no knowledge of one's existence; there was no question of any experience, and therefore there was a state which was beyond the gross concept of happiness or unhappiness. that was the unicity when there was not even any question of having experience. 

In the unmanifest Absolute, there is no consciousness at all - consciousness of existence. So only when there is this universal consciousness manifesting itself in the various forms, and these forms possess the life-force and are subject to the three gunas, can each form act through the life-force according to its own nature. It is only when identification takes place, and I begin to think that 'I' am acting, although it is only the combination of the three gunas that acts, that I assume quite unnecessarily the responsibilities and consequences of those actions, which properly are not mine at all. The actions would have taken place in any case, depending on the three gunas and the life-force.

It is amazing, almost silly, that anyone could think that he or she is acting. This is what happens: The waking state, before the other gunas start, is from the sattva-guna; that is, total harmony. In that split second when one wakes up, there is total love, total kindness. There is no question of selfishness. So the waking state is of the quality of the sattva-guna; subsequently, there are the physical activities caused by necessities, nature and duties; these derive from the rajas-guna. All these activities take place by themselves, but one starts saying 'I am doing this,' identifying and taking on the responsibilities - that is the work of the tamas-guna.

Parabrahman Not a Commodity

Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

V: So in Parabrahman, you can know both the world and no-world.

M: Everything depends on the appearance of that consciousness. If that consciousness is there, then also witnessing of the world happens. If there is no consciousness, then there is no world. Why do you know anything right now?

V: Because I am.

M: Because of that 'I-am-ness,' you know the world. A hundred years back, you did not know anything. Then you were the Parabrahman, because the 'I-am-ness' was not yet there.

V: Can't I still be Parabrahman now?

M: This is no joke, but you can become Parabrahman right now. Only, it is not a commodity that you can acquire. You, a hundred years ago, were the Parabrahman. Give me all the information about that state of a hundred years back. Focus your attention only on that consciousness I AM. Don't be led astray by all the so-called spiritual disciplines and rigamaroles.

V: Does this consciousness within the body have anything to do with the universal consciousness?

M: One is the expression of the other. If the pulse were not there, could that which is considered the individual body do anything in the world? The life force, the breath, is the expression of the mind and the consciousness. When you talk of one, the others have to be there. All the three are made one complex. Without one, the others can't work. Now, the difficulty arises because what this consciousness is is at once the universal consciousness - that is, the feeling of Presence, "I am Presence" - not: I am present or you are present or he is present. But unfortunately, the identification is with the body and I am not the Whole but a divisible part of the Whole. And therefore one thinks in terms of acquiring something. But when one sees the situation as it really is, that no individual is involved, that what is present is Presence as a whole and merely the expression of the Absolute, then the moment this is perceived there is liberation. Liberation is nothing else than seeing this with full conviction.

What is Liberation?

Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

Visitor: What about sins and merits after abidance in my self?

Maharaj: These are qualities related to the body-mind. So the moment you are no longer the body-mind, these qualities have no further scope with you. 

First of all, we condition ourselves into the body; we indoctrinate ourselves with the idea "I am the body." An example is the air. When the air comes into the body, it is called prana. It is conditioned by the body and confined to the body. Once it is disassociated from the body, that vital breath or prana becomes manifest; it is the universal air. Not only universal air, it becomes the universal space also. So the space is not conditioned by the body. That air is not conditioned by the body. Similarly, your identity is not associated and limited by the body; therefore none of the conditionings of the body is binding on you. By your very nature, you are that dynamic, manifest consciousness only.

No doubt it depends on this quality of "I am ness," on the vital breath. The latter means air only - air functioning in the body. This air and the knowingness cause the "I am ness." Out of prana grows the world; and world means the mind. All that construes "you." So when the vital breath quits, there is no more "I am ness," but the "I am ness" does not die off and remain like a dead body.

Visitor: What is liberation?

When you are liberated from the body-mind sense, so that you are not the body-mind, that itself is liberation. My language may not satisfy you, but don't get upset by that. You should try to understand the meaning behind my words.

When you are really liberated, when you firmly come to the conclusion that "I am not the body, nor the vital breath," the illumination is perfect.

Are you the vital breath? Pay attention to the vital breath. Are you the language, because you can voice the language? Can you be the language? Similarly, I lead you to consciousness. You are in a position to watch consciousness; therefore, you cannot be the consciousness. You must fully employ your faculty of discrimination and investigate.

Before we are caught up with this body-mind sense, we are the parabrahman only. But the moment this "I am ness" appears, we embrace this body-mind as ourself and then we are involved with all the concepts and all the problems of the world.

That knowingness, that realization, has no color. For one who has realized all this, there is brahman, the godly state, and the one who knows this godly state is the parabrahman state.

V: To one who knows the brahman state, does the world still appear?

M: When it is a qualitative "I am ness" state, the world is. Once this state is transcended, there is no world. In the "I am ness", in the consciousness, the manifest world is there. In the "No I am ness" state there is no world.

The Knower of this "I am ness" state and the world - within that "Knower state", there is no world. But in the "I am ness" state there is a world.

V: But the Knower then knows the world, the parabrahman knows the world?

M: [Pointing to his cigarette lighter] You see, that flame is like "I am ness." When the "I am ness" appears, the world also appears. You, like parabrahman, is watching that. When there is no flame, you see nothing. When the flame is there, "I am ness" has appeared, therefore the world has appeared.

Vairagya

Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

V: With the falling off of desires and attachments, there comes a feeling of not wanting to do anything..

M: That leads to the Parabrahman state. What is the use to that state of all the ambitions, expectations, desires? What does it need? Nothing at all, for it is the perfect state.

V: You get to the point that you don't care for anything anymore, neither the Brahman state nor anything.

M: Yes. You won't care to know that you are the Brahman also in that state. 

Would you take delivery of this talk, accept all of this?

V: A little! [laughter]

I: It is not child's play that he is talking about.

V: There just seems to be a total disenchantment with the world.

M: What do you mean by disenchantment?

V: It comes as a preference for not wanting to be here - "here" meaning "in the world."

M: It will happen only when you realize "I am not like this, not like that...," if you eliminate everything. In that state, you will have no color, no design, no form, no name.

V: Then there is no longer any desire to practice spirituality either.

M: That type of dispassion is called vairagya. Vairagya means no raga; raga means love, love to be. Love to be is also to be discarded.

V: That brings alone sadness.

M: That is the emotional state - an aspect of the body-mind, this sadness. If you are not completely clear of this body-mind sense. the sadness is bound to be there.

[To two visitors in particular] When nobody was here earlier, I gave both of you a very good opportunity to talk, and now you are itching to talk.

V: May I talk now?

M: You shut off all your questions by your previous statement that you had found your self. That means the object of your spiritual search has been reached. Please explain yourself in greater detail. Before you came here, what were you and after meeting me what are you? I would like to hear.

V: Before I came here, everything seemed to go on in here [pointing to her head] and I looked at my body and thought of my body all the time; and I used to be concerned about money, very concerned .. and also whether or not I would have a job. And sometimes I worked very hard to understand the  I AM, I read your books and listened to the teaching .. I tried very hard to stay in the I AM, and I would meditate.

M: And then?

V: Then I found myself here somehow, and I said "I AM" and I knew it.

M: You understood "you are"? What is the color of that, the design of that? What is the image of that?

V: Nothing

M: Find it!

V: [unintelligible about the need for disciplines]

M: Until you meet your own self, I AM, the [the disciplines] are all very necessary. Once you abide in your own self they are useless, for then you are no more the body and no longer concerned with all the disciplines pertaining to that body.

Give up the shackles of the body!

Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

V: If I know myself, if I realize myself, may there be a transformation in my worldly life?

M: What do you mean by "worldly life" and what do you mean by "transformation"? Your worldly life is all your concept, is all your mind only. We are dealing with that principle which is prior to the mind. This may be described by saying that you are putting on various shrouds. Before you knew yourself, that was your true state. The first shroud was that of "I am ness"; then you embraced the body as yourself, and then so many other shrouds. All these shrouds have to be peeled off including the "I am ness".

From the no-knowing state, the first veil I took was that of  I AM. That was formless, nameless. But I embraced the body: I got a form for myself, I got a name for myself. This was the fall. Therefore all sages advise: Give up the shackles of the body! "I am the body" - these are the shackles. Give them up.

V: How to get rid of this body-mind sense?

M: How to forget? Who remembers and who knows that he remembers and forgets? The one who knows the memory and non-memory states is bodiless; he is prior to body and mind. If you can imbibe totally the essence of what is being said right now, you will stabilize in the parabrahman state only.

You are not beginners in the sphere of spirituality. You have acquired a lot of spiritual wisdom. Now please ask questions.

The one who distinguishes between different states - this is with body, that is bodiless, this is this, this is that - stands quite apart from all those things. And you are the one who distinguishes. You are the one that is the purest, the most auspicious, the cleanest. Since that is your state, you are in a position to assess the quality of other states. With this understanding, carry out your worldly life, family life, with full zeal. But the point is this: if you really understand and abide in what I say, naturally your desires and expectations will fall off.

Your Life is a Concept

Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

V: If I know myself, if I realize myself, may there a transformation in my worldly life?

M: What do you mean by "worldly life" and what do you mean by "transformation"? Your worldly life is all concept, is all your mind only. We are dealing with that principle which is prior to mind. This may be described by saying that you are putting on various shrouds. Before you knew yourself, what was your true state. The first shroud was that of I AM-ness; then you embraced the body as yourself, and then so many other shrouds. All these shrouds have to be pealed off, including I AMness. 

From the no-knowing state, the first veil I took was that of I AM. That was formless, nameless. But I embraced the body: I got a form for myself, I got a name for myself. This was the fall. Therefore all sages advise: Give up the shackles of the body! I am the body - theseare the shackles. Give them up.

Stay Put in Quietude

Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

V: I have a question.

M: I have not heard anyone starting questions. I gave you special time for that but you did not speak up.

Whatever you have heard applies to you totally and exclusively. Accept that fully. The state you were in before you embraced the body as yourself, that state is the guru of all gurus. That is the Brahman - not even the Brahman, it is the Parabrahman only. Subsequently, you began to fall into grosser states and finally you embraced the body as yourself. Before you occurred to yourself as I AM, you were in the highest state - the guru of the gurus - the Parabrahman state. Later on you started filling up with all kinds of grosser matters and you came down to the body sense - I am the body. So all these impurities have to be removed. Until then, you have to stay put in quietude. 

Your fall started with the appearance of that beingness I AM. With the appearance of this knowingness I AM, the next fall was embracing the body as I AM. And then you gathered so many things onto yourself. Hold on to the state of knowing yourself as I AM as the truth. All the other things you have gathered to yourself are unreal.

[To a particular visitor] Presently, you are in quietude. Is it on this side of sleep or on the other side? You are only the consciousness feeling the consciousness. Consciousness touches the consciousness. You are heading for that experience, known as death, of which you have heard. And you have to realize how that death experience if unreal. With all our experience in the world, and not withstanding all our struggles there, we are heading only towards the inevitability of death. But that death is unreal. If death were real, then the death of one animal would signify the end of the entire species.

So long as the consciousness I AM is not stimulated into knowingness, there is no knowingness at all. That very stimulus, that I AM-ness, is the source of the entire manifest world of yours. In the absence of the awakening of this I AM-ness, where is the question of 'mine' and 'thine'? Only after the appearance of the I AM-ness, I and others come into play. Without this I AM-ness, there can be neither I AM nor others. If you investigate this aspect of spirituality, then there is no question of birth and death. But if you don't investigate this particular aspect, you remain involved in the cycle of birth and death.

Abide in the State of I AM

Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

V: I have been to Tiruvannamalai quite a number of times, in Ramana Maharshi's ashram. A German lady there showed me a book on the teachings of Maharshi and told me a similar teaching and philosophy existed  - that given by Maharaj.

M: How long have you been going to Ramanashramam?

V: Only for the past five years.

I: Did you read his (Nisargadatta's) book, I am That?

V: I only read one or two questions on the subject of death.

M: You have been reading Ramana Maharshi's book and found it interesting. In what way did you find it so with reference to yourself?

V: My orientation has been basically 'advaita vedanta', so that I have been reading in his book.

I: Having read those books, would you like to ask any questions?

V: I am feeling happy in trying to follow this philosophy. Is there a necessity to meet a living guru or is it sufficient to have faith in a guru who has left this body?

M: The aim is to awaken yourself to the faith in the self I AM. That is the entire purpose. So whatever is conducive to that development you may accept. Supposing you have faith in a living guru, then accept a living guru. If you have faith in a guru who has left his body, accept that guru.

V: But is there more benefit to one type over the other?

M: When you were not knowing anything, what was the first thing you came to know in your whole span of life?

V: The self. And then came other things.

M: You started with knowing nothing, including you did not know yourself. So what is it that you started knowing first?

V: I started reading the Gita, reading Krishna.

M: You did not know anything. You did not know yourself either! So where is the scope for Gita? 

At this time of your life, when you were not knowing yourself what was the first thing you came to know about? You started knowing so many things, after you started knowing yourself. You came to know "I am," and then you came to know other things. How did that happen?

V: It happened probably because of my previous karma, my prarabdha karma.

M: These are all stories you have heard. After you came to know yourself, you started knowing so many things. But what knowledge did you have before even you came to know yourself?

V: One comes to know all kinds of worldly things, but the world does not bring me any happiness or pleasure. But reading these books..

M: Please reply to the question.

V: I have probably not understood properly .. the question.

M: How did you come to know your own self? Afterwards, you can do so many things. How did that happen?

V: The self came to know this body.

M: First of all, this knowingness appeared, the knowingness I AM; later on you embraced the body.

V: Correct.

M: Hold on to this only, and don't ask any questions. I am addressing the consciousness, am expounding consciousness in terms of the same consciousness. You came to know yourself, I AM. To abide in that is itself bhakti, the devotion. Before the appearance of I AMness, where is the devotion?

Conscious Presence - The Highest God

Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

If you want to remember our coming here this morning, treat that as the highest god which gives us the sense of presence - this conscious presence, which makes us feel that we are, we exist, we are alive, we are present. If you do, it will unfold itself nd gives us all the necessary knowledge.

You must have the firmest conviction that this consciousness is our parent principle, the highest god; then you will have all the necessary knowledge. If there is one principle which can save us, which is our only capital, it is that which gives us the sense of presence, this consciousness. Be one with it, pray to it, and treat it as the only god. Whatever we have, whatever we acquire, is only because of this consciousness, and to be one with it we don't require any implements, any instruments, any money; there is no expense involved!

This consciousness is free of inhibitions, any conditions, and being without obstructions, it is totally free. If we resort to it, it will make us also free.

V: Why is it that the jnani is not aware of the universal knowledge?

M: Why is the space unaware of anything that has happened? How is it that the sky is not affected by events happening on earth? Behind the four elements - air, water, fire and earth - the space is always there.

V: What is meant by a "pure heart"?

Interpreter: Please don't ask frivolous questions. Whatever energy one has to spare, let us spend it on valuable questions.

V: One question usually leads to another, and there has got to be a starting point somewhere. So a question like this is moving ahead a little bit, stimulating more questions.

I: Here it should be just the other way. The frequency of the intensity of questions should be getting less and less. If your questions are multiplying, something must be wrong somewhere.

V: Yesterday I came here and found the I AM. What do I do now?

M: Nothing else, that is all. You forget it and go!

All Concepts Are False

Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

V: Is the jnani is beyond consciousness and unconsciousness, he must contain consciousness. The jnani, after all, is the totality. How can that which contains consciousness not be conscious?

M: Knowledge, the entire manifestation, is the form of knowledge, jnana. But the jnani has no form or shape; he has transcended consciousness. Therefore, whatever acts is the universal consciousness and not the jnani. So, don't talk anymore about the jnani. Rather talk about this consciousness - individual consciousness or the universal consciousness - which is the basis of all your thoughts. So that subject you should discuss. Forget about the jnani because he is beyond that. And whatever you think the jnani is talking about, it is not the jnani talking but the universal consciousness.

Whatever you discuss, it can only be on the basis of this "I amness." Forget about this jnani aspect, inquire only about jnana.

V: That is where the shoe pinches: this conflict between jnana and the jnani. However high you go, however deep you go inwardly, unless you become a jnani, there will always be a path that goes beyond it; one will not be satisfied with the universal consciousness, one will ever want to go further.

M: There is no question of anyone becoming a jnani. The jnani is out of time, so one cannot become one. A jnani in the process of stabilizing in the jnana state possesses for some time the pride of that "I am brahman" state and therefore talks about it. That, however, is not the ultimate jnani state. I will not participate in any concept of yours.

V: There are a group of ethical concepts - loyalty, gratitude, justice, keeping one's word etc. Now, it has also been said that this is something beyond good and evil, neither good nor bad, etc. But certain groups of concepts like those I mentioned seem to be inseparably connected to the concept of the man of achievement. In other words, one assumes that such a man would somehow embody these qualities. My question is: Is that right or is it just an illusion?

M: What do you mean by "a man of achievement"?

V: A jnani

Interpreter: Ah, but a man of achievement in the world that is quite different.

M: All the qualities you mentioned as well as all possible qualities you can imagine are in consciousness  or knowledge. The jnani, however, is beyond al qualities and concepts.

V: OK, I have one supplement to my question: Does such a person want..

I: No, because there is no "person". Therefore, all the qualities are in knowledge or the consciousness. The jnani is beyond al concepts and all qualities. He is no longer an individual; therefore, whatever applies to an individual does not apply to him. That is the answer to the question. All the misconceptions arise because we think of the jnani as an individual. The jnani has lost his individuality.

Maharaj explains that he is not only not an individual, but he is also beyond the duality of manifestation nd non-manifestations.

Do you have any questions?

V: No.

I: What has happened? No questions! Silence is a good defense, self-protection. Maybe you are afraid to expose yourself.

V: Is it correct to assume that somebody who is to be what Maharaj talks about will ordinarily manifest the qualities of justice, loyalty, gratitude, honesty, etc.?

M: That is not necessarily so at all. Even a murderer can get knowledge. His past deeds or the absence of these good qualities never come in the way. A classical example is Valmiki, who wrote the Ramayana. For every murder he committed he puta tiny pebble in a vessel, and in this manner he accumulated seven enormous vessels filled to the brim. All these murders he had committed did not prevent him being a jnani.

Ultimately, all these concepts can and must be understood to be false, but the difficulty and the essential thing is to be convinced that the original basic concept I AM itself is false.

You like the talks?

V: I like getting answers.

M: Having obtained and digested the answers, one's ego must gradually dissipate.

If there are no further questions, we will close this meeting.

Who is to go anywhere?

Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

Visitor: When the basic concept is "I am nothing," how can the world move? That is what I am trying to express.

M: If you had come to the conclusion that you are not, then how can any further concept or any further question arise? If you had really come to the firm conclusion that I AMness is no longer there, how can any further question arise at all?

V: That means there is nothing further than that?

M: Everything that is there, it is fullness and it is nothingness. So long as I do not have the I AMness, I no loner have the concept that I am in individual. Then my individuality has merged into this everythingness or nothingness and everything is all right.

V: But there is no everythingness, it is nothingness. I do not get the feeling of everythingness. That is what I am trying to say.

M: So if there is nothingness, then who is to do anything anyway? Assuming that there is nothingness, who is there to search for anything, even everythingness? In that nothingness, you are also not there. Then who is it that wants anything more than this?

V: I don't know.

M: Again the answer that you don't know is a 100% correct because in that state where you did not know, you did not even know that you existed. And this I AMness has come subsequently without your wanting it. And whatever knowledge you have now has been accumulating since the arrival of this I AMness. But in your original state, the not-knowing is there.

V: The problem is where do I go from here?

M: Who? The question is "who" is to go anywhere? It started with the whole thing and the circle is now complete. In that nothingness, we are also nothingness. So who is to go anywhere? For whome are there any more questions left? In that nothingness, anything is nothingness. You are also nothingness.

Your question is very much like the child of a childless couple asking, "Where do I go from here?" Where is he to go? And from where has he come? I will continue with the same old simile. A very old couple are held in great esteem, love and reverence by all their acquaintances. So the couple dies. all the acquaintances decide that they must do something for the child. But the child has not been born. For whom could they do something?

Once the knowledge of the self dawns, there is no longer any question of good or bad, suffering or not suffering, happiness or unhappiness; the question just does not arise.

Continue With Your Sadhana

Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

Visitor: No, I feel as if I am an observer to this whole thing; it is all a massive play, you know - you act.

M: If the one who observes that  is also dissolving into nothingness, then what?

V: But he can't, because the physical body is there.

M: The answer was a 100% correct. Therefore, I assume that that to which this answer has also been has also dissolved into nothingness, and that there is no individuality left. But from your subsequent treatment of this problem I conclude that this individuality still remains. Therefore, my final answer to you is that you continue to do your sadhana.

The jnani who has this experience of nothingness, his individuality does not remain. So whatever happens, he no longer has an instrument with which to undergo any experience. But in your case, you say that nothingness is there, and also your individuality - the two are incompatible. Therefore, continue to do your sadhana. If you are really at a stage where you find nothingness, what then is left to do anything in this world?

V: There is nothing left. But then what should I do, commit suicide?

M: You are not there even to die!

V: No, I appreciate that. That is not the answer either. Nothing is an answer to this. But where do I go from here?

M: The lady was explaining that there are all kinds of EST types of methods and systems which come with the promise of liberation in 10 or 12 days. As for myself, I no longer care about all this. I have come to this nothingness in which the search has ended because the seeker has also disappeared into that nothingness of which we are talking. I no longer take any interest in that research. First, I have seduced maya and once the maya surrendered to me, I had no other use for maya so I threw her out.

Thousands of organizations have come and gone, thousands are yet to come. All of them are based on a  certain concept. For example, one had the concept of untouchability; now to a certain extent that concept of untouchability has gone. But have the people because of that concept been able to realize their true nature? Therefore, none of these organizations have any use; the ultimate thing is to fin out about one's true nature. In this, organizations can do nothing, because they are all based on a certain concept.

V: But this organization put me in touch with my beingness and that is the whole point.

M: In that very nothingness which we have been discussing, the individuality should have been dissolved so that there is no longer anyone who is satisfied or dissatisfied. How could he be satisfied, because there is no longer anything to be satisfied in, in that nothingness? So what you have got is not the real thing, although your answer was a 100% correct. Only that individual who has lost his individuality has merged with the parabrahman. So the individuality must go. The entire world moves on the basis of one concept, and that is I AM - the fundamental concept of one's individuality.

The Experience of Nothingness

Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

V: I know the experience of the nothingness, and I just wanted to know where do I go from here?

M: In hat nothingness, what is present? That "you" which has been present in that nothingness and has had the experience of nothingness, who or what is that? Someone or something has had the experience of nothingness; now what is that someone or something?

V: Complete emptiness

M: What is that experience itself? Does it have a shape or form?

V: I can't think of any shape or form for it.

M: That which has no shape or form, is that you?

V: I don't know. I have only had this experience and I feel every thought and everything else was just a lot of rubbish. Everything in the world is just a lot of nonsense, it has no meaning. The only thing I have got is "nothing", that is the only thing that has meaning. I can't express it.

M: That is all right. But in the balance of all this experience and no-experience, what is it that you think you are? What is your knowledge about your own identity? What result have you got? What is the balance sheet? Ultimately, what is the conclusion you have arrived at about your self? Is there something at all or are you also nothing?

V: I am nothing.

M: Don't use the word "I". But what is it that is nothing?

V: I don't know.

M: Have you done any meditation?

V: There was a seminar of EST, a four-day course of continual meditation; I went to one of those and that's where I got the experience of nothingness.

M: What is EST?

V: EST is an organization; it means "to be" in French. It is a regular institution that gives seminars.

M: The answer you have given is correct. But with that answer, there is nothing further that can be said. Have you come to that conclusion with conviction?

V: Yes, I have. You see, I have felt that this nothingness, if it indeed is the ultimate reality that I have been looing for, then I am not happy with it because it does not seem to nurture me.

M: If there is nothingness, then there is nothingness [nothing left of] about an individual either. So who is it who is grumbling, who is not satisfied with the experience, with the nothingness? If there is nothingness, there must be total nothingness. There can't be an individual who is away from it and can still say, "There is nothingness." So hat is this individual, who is not satisfied with the total nothingness, which it is? Who is dissatisfied? Who is grumbling?

In that nothingness, the individual also must be dissolved. Then who is it that is grumbling? Who is it that is not satisfied?

V: Oh grumbling means - there is no interest now in doing anything or fighting the battles of life as we used todo before, like warriors.

Interpreter (I): So that individual has been dissolved?

V: There is nothing, absolutely nothing.

I: Then where is the dissatisfaction? Dissatisfaction must be felt by somebody!

V: How can one live in this world..

I: But who? That is Maharaj's question!

V: The physical body, the physical manifestation. How can it live and how can it survive on this earth with a form if all the time it has got this concept of complete nothingness?

M: I come back to the same thing. What is it that has to do anything in this nothingness? What is it that is left in this nothingness who has to do anything?

V: Perhaps this nothingness was only a beginning, and was just a quest like everything else.

M: Something has turned into nothingness. What is that something that has turned into nothingness? This consciousness that I am, that I exist, that concept itself has turned into nothingness. So what is left? Who is left?

V: Nothing is left.

M: The answer is 100% correct. But I wanted to find out how steady you are in that nothingness. What is or is not, don't argue about that; we can only talk about what has happened to you. And you as an individual or the conscious presence has been dissolved into nothingness. That is all you can say.

Once you are in that situation, there is nothing; whatever work you do, whatever your behavior, is the work and behavior of that child of a barren woman, that does not exist as an individual.

Mumukshutva - Desire for Liberation

Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

The question is: What yardstick exists to measure the progress of a seeker? A very weak man was not able to walk. Gradually, he started getting stronger and began to walk. So then he knows that he has regained his strength, does he not? The indication of one's progress is shown by your disinclination to associate with so-called 'normal' people. Your desires and expectations get less and less.

Please ask some questions, but don't ask anything about family life; ask only about spiritual knowledge.

You must have an intense hunger or need for it, to get self-knowledge or spirituality. The complete world picture you get through the five sense organs, and the combination of that multiplied by a certain factor represents your worldly needs. Just like a fish out of water gasps for water, so you must covet self-knowledge. When out of intense hunger for spirituality or self-knowledge the floodgates are opened, you start rejecting everything, from the broomsticks to Ishvara, up to your own consciousness; you shed everything.

In the worldly life, with the power of money, you can purchase anything. Similarly, by donating the self, you get the Brahman state; and when you donate the Brahman state, you get the Parabrahman state. In the first state, you become the manifest consciousness; in the second or the last state, you surrender the consciousness also. At the end of the process you are the Parabrahman.